Netherlands: Fawaz vs. Shariah4Holland

Netherlands: Fawaz vs. Shariah4Holland

After Abu Imran, a Belgian radical Muslim, announced his new organization, Shariah4Holland, Fawaz Jneid, a radical imam in the Hague, wrote that Abu Imran and his organizations, Shariah4Belgium and Shariah4Holland, should be arrested.

Imran called Fawaz, and tried to get him to understand his point of view. Fawaz was pretty insistent throughout the half-hour conversation that Imran has no idea what Shariah really means, that threats and insults (ie, calling the Queen a 'false leader') are not the way to convince people to join Islam, and that Imran should clarify that he does not support violence.

Imran posted the conversation online (part 1, 2, 3), sub-titled from the original Arabic, and with various quotes from the Quran and elsewhere interspersed throughout, to prove his points.

I bring here portions of the conversation.

Fawaz: Abu Imran, what you're doing is causing Muslims a lot of difficulties here in the Netherlands and in Belgium. Your actions have nothing to do with Sharia or Jihad, and your behavior is also not of Sharia or Jihad. May Allah bless you..

Imran: What violations of Shariah, Sheikh?

Fawaz: I'll tell you! Listen to me! When the Prophet, peace be upon him, wrote a letter to Kisra [ie, the Persian emperor], he said: "From Mohammed, the Messenger of Allah to Kisraa, leader of the Romans." He didn't say, "to the enemy of Allah. We're going to come and cut your head off." That is not the way we deal with people, may Allah bless you.

Imran: Did Kisra fight the Muslims and killed them in Persia?

Fawaz: And you now, does Belgium kill Muslims here in Belgium?

Imran: Yes, the Belgian army is killing our brothers in Afghanistan

Fawaz: Enough, then go to Afghanistan! May Allah facilitate it for you! Nobody's preventing you from going! Look, Abu Imran, listen, the Muslims have women and children here, you have no right to cause problems for the women. I ask you: if they harass Muslim women, can you protect them?

Later Fawaz accuses Imran of going on the wrong path:

Fawaz: Our way of thought deeds are those of the prophets. You deeds are those of Ibn Salul and Ibn Saba [considered Muslim hypocrites]. Your kind broke the Khalifate of Uthman and murdered him and Ali afterward!

Imran: We are not Kharijites [Muslim sect]

Fawaz: No, I didn't say Kharijites, but their way!


Fawaz: Why did the Prophet (PbuH) tell the oppressed in Mecca: 'Patience, family of Yassir, your reward is paradise!' and didn't choose to attack?

Imran: He had very few, weak followers

Fawaz: And you have a lot in Belgium?

Imran: He had very few, weak followers.. and Allah hadn't yet given them permission to fight! And the revelations were still ongoing

Fawaz: And when Allah revealed Jihad to him?

Imran: Did we fight Europe? No! Did we attack Europeans? No!

Fawaz: No, but you're calling for it.

Fawaz: I ask you, let me clarify my idea, and listen up, so you don't say 'the sheik mislead me'. The phone line might be tapped, I don't know. I've heard that you support the acts of Al-Qaeda, is that true?

Imran: No, never!

Fawaz: Good, than reject the..

Imran: But we believe as Muslims that we're forbidden from condemning our Muslim brothers on public TV and in the papers. The Propet (PbuH) says 'support your brother, when he does wrong, and when wrong is done to him'.

Fawaz: We're supporting you by keeping you away from the wrong path

When Fawaz starts speaking about Bush's crusade, Imran interrupts and asks, why are you speaking about the past?

Imran: Say Obama, may Allah fight him! Why don't you say that?

Fawaz: May Allah curse him, and not just fight him

Imran: Say 'Beatrix, the minister of defense, the Dutch government'.. why don't you say that?

Fawaz: (laughs) Abu Imran, you think I'm under pressure to say something, but our topic is not insulting people.


Fawaz: Don't talk to me about the Belgian army in Afghanistan. Look at the situation and the torture of religious Muslims in prisons in Muslim countries. Why do you want to start fighting against the Belgian army?

Imran: No, no, no! We're not calling for armed Jihad, to be totally clear.

Fawaz: Make that clear then! You're saying 'we're coming', the people will understand that as secret and hidden organizations who want to commit attacks and shed blood.

Imran then claims he never said that and people are misunderstanding him. When Fawaz tells him to make that clear in the media, Imran rejects the idea