Norway: Islamic Council says imams should listen to homosexuals

The Islamic Council of Norway doesn't want homosexuals, Muslim or not, to be in the closet.  They live in Norway, a democratic country, and they are free to come out, says Senaid Kobilica of the Islamic council of Norway to Dagsavisen.  He stresses that nobody should live in fear and points to violent incidents where homosexuals were beaten due to the sexual inclination.

"Most of all they need somebody to speak with.  Imams must therefore be open to listen to homosexual Muslims.  We recommend that everybody respect homosexuals and lesbians", says Kobilica.

The Islamic Council is an umbrella organization for the Islamic faith societies and organizations in Norway.  It represents close to 70,000 Norwegian Muslims.  [ed: out of an estimated 120,000-150,000]

By saying imams should listen to homosexual Muslims, Kobilica opens the door for homosexual Muslims.  But the head of the Islamic Council thinks it's incompatible to be a homosexual and a believing Muslim.

"It isn't possible to live homosexually and at the same time say that one practices Islam.  These are two incompatible things."

- Isn't is also an interpretation of Islam, that one can't be an homosexual and a believing Muslim?

"No.  Homosexuality goes against what Islam stands for, and therefore it can't be combined."

- How should the imams treat homosexual Muslims?

"The imams should listen to homosexuals and to their concerns. But naturally we will also inform them about Islamic thought and how it relates to homosexuality."

- Can homosexuality be cured?

"I don't want to speak of curing or that homosexuality is an illness.  As an imam I will note that every Muslim should live in conformity to basic Islamic principles."

Earlier this week the Islamic Council of Norway's met with SV's homo-network, where they spoke of homosexual Muslims in Norway.  This is the first time the Islamic Council met with homosexual representatives to debate on this issue.

Two and half weeks ago the Children and Equality Minister, Anniken Huitfeldt, criticized the Islamic Council for not rejecting the death sentence against homosexuals. (..)

"We stress that the Islamic Council of Norway rejects the death sentence for homosexuals in Norway, but we don't want to go into legislation in other countries," says Kobilica.

But Norwegian Muslims don't need to reject the death sentence for homosexuals outside Norway?

"As said the Islamic Council can't get involved in how other countries are run."

Senaid, you had earlier said that you can count homosexual Muslims on one hand.  Do you still think that?

"He he.  No, I've heard much about it, and it was certainly not so clever of me," answers Kobilica.

Basim Ghozlan, head of the Islamic Association, says he will naturally listen to homosexual Muslims who come to him.

"But until now I haven't seen anybody.  If they come to me, we can talk about anything.  I think they should live the way they think is right," says Ghozlan.

Source: Dagsavisen (Norwegian)

See also: Norway: Islamic Council facing loss of funds over homosexuality question, Norway: Still waiting, Norway: Waiting for the fatwa, Norway: Islamic Council turns to European Fatwa Council for ruling on homosexuals

6 comments:

jdamn13 said...

Whether or not Christianity and Judaism allow homosexuality is arguable and based upon interpretation, but this is not the case with Islam. Not only was Muhammad semi-obsessed with hating on homosexuals toward the end of his life, not only did he specifically forbid it over and over (the Koran is incredibly repetitive, and it's in numerous Hadiths), but homosexuality really does run contrary to Islamic ideals. The foremost duties of Muslims are (1) to fight and kill for Islam, (2) to breed and breed for Allah's army, and (3) to never cause dissention of disagreement within the cult. Homosexuality violates (2) and (3). The reason why Islam is so harsh toward 'adulterers,' besides the fact that what it considers 'moral' is incredibly arbitrary (there's polygamy and easy divorce, so it's not analogous to real marriage, and raping infidels is fine, so it's not about extramarital sex) and ridiculously intolerant, is because it causes rifts within the cult community by creating jealousy and more freedom than Islam can stand. If Muslims can get laid without being either alpha warriors/bully jerks who get to rape infidels or blowing themselves up and getting laid in the afterlife, then the fragile house of cards on which Islam is built starts to sway. This article explains it better than I did, although it actually never mentions homosexuality per se, but my argument will make perfect sense after reading it. It's from Beyond Jihad, which is a $70 dollar book, so it's cool that FFI has it online for free: http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/Ohmyrus/Once_were_warriors.htm

And in this sort of warrior culture women have such low status because (a) repressed women have more babies for Allah's army, and (b) if they had any rights they would actually civilize the men and the warrior culture would implode, as has happened everywhere that civilization exists (i.e., the non-Muslim world). They can't keep all the men as sex slaves like they do women (who would keep them? who would fight and kill for Allah?), and they can't make it possible for men to get laid independently of sex slavery ('marriage' or raping infidels) or killing others and taking themselves out in the process. And of course, warriors get all the girls (war booty sex slaves - honestly, no pun intended - and multiple wives with their monetary war booty since Muslim women are basically a commodity to be bought and sold), but you can't keep infidel men around because they threaten the order of things (because why on Earth would a Muslim woman choose a Muslim man given the choice when she could have rights, live a civilized life, and be treated like a human being?) and you can't have soldiers doing each other for the same reason you can't allow adultery within the cult, which is why raping infidels is fine, but having consentual sex with non-sex-slave Muslim women (extra-'marital' sex) is not since it creates tensions within the Ummah. Allowing homosexuality, like all human rights, including freedom of speech, freedom to leave Islam, and of course women's rights will be the undoing of Islam. It really is a house of cards.

Of course, the only thing Muslims consider to be homosexual is being a proud, out-of-the-closet gay, but that's a cultural thing and contradicts scripture. Raping kids is a-ok, hence the fact that sexual abuse is mandated in madrassas and parents send their kids there anyway. If you buy a 'wife' and breed for Allah's army, you can permissibly have all the gay sex you want. The majority of Egyptian, Turkish, Sudanese, and Moroccan men have long-term gay relationships while they're trying to save up money to buy a 'wife.' Where there's gender apartheid there's rampant homosexuality, be it prison, boarding school, or the Muslim world. I personally don't find homosexuality to be abnormal, since I've seen even birds, cats, and dogs engage in it, nor do I care what others do in the privacy of their own bedrooms as long as everyone's a consenting adult and nobody gets hurt, but whenever you restrict normal behavior (mingling and healthy, formative relationships between the sexes), behavior tends to get as deviant as possible. I imagine that Bedouin gender apartheid was how they came to be so accepting of incest and pedophilia. Gender apartheid is certainly how Islam has continued to be so accepting of them. They facilitate Islam by creating hateful, malignant narcissistic, evil people, but homosexuality is haram because it threatens Islam's very foundation.

jdamn13 said...

I forgot to link to this article by Serge Trifkovic: http://frontpagemag.com/articles/Printable.aspx?GUID={DE9BC115-7388-46A3-8ED9-813BD71AEA25}

He explains the 'how' as well Ohmyrus explains the 'why.'

jdamn13 said...

Let's try this again with Ohmyrus link and the Trifkovic link

Esther said...

Whether or not Christianity and Judaism allow homosexuality is arguable and based upon interpretation, but this is not the case with Islam.

What is arguable here? I think both Jewish and Christian Bibles are very clear on that point. The reason it's 'open to interpretation' is because *people* decided it's open for interpretation:

Leviticus 20:13:
"A man shall not lie with another man as he would with a woman; the two of them have done a toevah; they shall be put to death; their bloodguilt is upon them."

Romans 1, 27
And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their alust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

jdamn13 said...

Hi Esther,

Both those verses are vague, though. Men don't have vaginas, so they can't 'lie with' each other as with women. The Romans verse fall in line with the Muslim idea that homosexuality is okay as long as you have sex with women too because it leaves that loophole open. Furthermore, Christians and Jews aren't to persecute others who live differently than they do anyway because it violates the Golden Rule, unless they're persecuting them. Gays don't persecute people by having sex with each other. And the interpretation of the Sodom and Gomorrah episode as being about nothing but gay sex is a uniquely Muslim phenomenon.

Esther said...

Hi jdamn13,

You can interpret it all you want - it's extremely clear that Leviticus says anybody who participates in an homosexual act does an abomination before God and should be killed.

Christian have for quite a few centuries persecuted those who did not live like they wanted them to, including other Christians. This stopped only after Christianity became liberalized.

Sodom and Gomorrah - the simple reading of the story is that the people of Sodom came to Lot demanding to have homosexual sex with Lot's visitors. Instead he offered his daughters. What does this have to do with Muslims?

Did anybody hear of the recent case in the Philippines where a British man was sent to jail for having a child with his not yet divorced girlfriend? They were sentenced according to the Christian law of Love and Acceptance, of course.