Yesterday I wrote about Norway's first terrorism trial. The main suspect, Arfan Bhatti, claimed that the conversation the PST claims were his plans to commit a terror attack were just way of airing his frustration.
The following is a translation of a conversation taped by the Norwegian authorities on August 8, 2006 19:11 to 20:22. During this time the two drove around many places in Oslo.
A - Andreas Bog Kristiansen.
B - Arfan Bhatti
In cases the PST wasn't able to identify who was speaking, it's marked as A/B.
... means the investigators weren't able to understand the recording.
Ed note: All comments are in the original. Translating from a transcript is not easy. I am sure there are errors here, but I think it gives a general overview of what was discussed in that conversation and will let people decide on their own whether these were real terrorism plans or just two guys airing their frustrations.
B: Hello, what's happening?
B: Are those Brazilian sandals?
A: Yes, but you...
B: But, who is it that... tell then!!
A: They're bought in Greece.. (unclear) ...
A: You get more Brazilian in Norway to...
B: I bought similar ones in Brazil two three...
B: Yes... sweat too much in running shoes
B: Is certainly exhausted, should have gone home today.
(car begins to drive, and it becomes partially noisy)
B: We have maximum.. there's so much trouble and.. one must keep at it and if you let it go then the alarms go off, not alarm but color...
A: If this burns...
(hard to hear what they say, they speak at the same time and there's a lot of noise)
B: When we're behind the car then it depends on where one puts the handle, no.
B: Therefore they have such... it solves by... color ampules go by...
A: there goes a woman.. the car's at red...
B: Where are you parking the car?
A: here, right here
B: This is certainly a footpath then. The car will.. is just as big as this.
B: (says something inaudible)
(Somebody says if you drive up there, where you come then. Can't hear what is answered.)
A: I grew up here when I was small.. lived at ruseløkka used to hang round here and.. draw and
A: This is also such a blind way.. doesn't come through.. here is the block
B: (isn't audible)
A: but it's certainly only to move then
B: Yes but ...
A: A lot of one way and small streets here
(little incomprehensible small talk)
A: I thought of a way, I can show it to you now, there's a way
(they speak together a bit but it's impossible to hear what they say)
B: Where do we get to if we drive up there?
A: Then we get to Drammens road, by the American embassy
B: that's.. it.
A: Yes, then there's no...
(little small talk inaudible)
B: Where do we get to here
A: then we get up to.. yes next to the American embassy
B: By the roundabout
A: Yes I have a friend that lives right outside here
K: No you must take one up, swing to the right... but that's there, that's a barrier.. one must go through there there's a possibility to drive on the pavement.
B/A: the barrier opens only if you come from one side no?
A: the barrier can be put of commission the day before we.. before no, that's something nobody will think about. It's just to snap the barrier
B/A: That day we will do that yes
B/K: Yes or the day before
(Little small talk that is impossible to understand)
A: Everybody who lives in that block must drive in there. I think that it's prefect to destroy also right out
B: Yes that's that but how...
A: So we put out nails then.. agree?
A: Such that when the police comes after us then they come across right. It's just that way. There's the barrier that.. it's completely.. such ways but it's just out of the motorway then...
(little smalltalk impossible to hear)
A: Here's the bank... It's strange that [name removed], but the bank.. wasn't thrown out, strange no?
(A leaves the car, then comes back in)
A: It's wasn't particularly very firm
B: it's possible to push it up yes, ok
A: It was easy then
(below it's a little unclear who says what)
A/B: Is there a camera here?
A/B: Do you know where the road goes then?
A/B: Don't think it's goes any place, think it just goes to...
A/B: are you sure
A/B: Yes pretty sure
A/B: that's the fence we don't come out
(They speak about the barrier if it doesn't go up then one can push it up and put it back down again. A little hard to hear who says what due to the noise.)
B: Drive out there then we come to a motorway.
(they go out of the car and come back in after about 1 minute)
A: It's strange they don't have any camera
B: I know. I saw precisely a person who went in. Think to live in the apartments opposites (each other?)
B: Maybe we get on a traffic island
B: Don't need to get out of the car to open the gate.
A: No it's just awkward.
B: It's just to drive right out.
A/B: When we're on the motorway...
(They speak together, hard to hear what is said)
A: It's what happened last time it was destroyed
A: It's also a problem that the bars are open Sundays, they'll see everything then, if they sit out to drink and enjoy themselves. They'll be perfect witnesses.
B: It doesn't matter
A: No, no
(they speak together again that it's impossible to understand. Then they go out of the car)
A/B: It's perfect
A/B: Isn't it
A/B: With less somebody goes down then
A/B: They'll be scared. They'll drop down and such. They will (not) get to run after us.
A/B: ... Nobody can say that
(They speak together but it's unclear, then they go outside the car and speak there. They whistle probably to some woman. B calls to them: "You want to have some good love"
Afterwards it's hard to hear what they say until B says "Then we have two alternatives and have several days to think". Continue to talk outside the car. Come in about 12 minutes later)
(a car door probably bangs and it's assumed B and A get back in the car.)
A: ... like here then. He pays.. ... overcharges a lot. If you are interested.
B: What does he have then?
A: He has almost anything. Guns. If there is something else also. He has a lot of money and.
A: Yes, mmm
B: ... (unclear) ... has bloody lots of money
A: Yes yes
B: ..... (lots of background noise)
A: If you drive one up here like this then you're ...
B: Yes, hell
A: ... Drive up to.. the embassy.. I will show you... right. Also if you see.. here now.
B: Yes, I see it.
A: ... plastic, explosives (uncertain if he says plastic)
B: They certainly have... can we ...
A: Yes... build bloody many of in Norway. Built lots of stylish buildings...
B: Many that will have... that work...
A: ... You think it's a possibility or?
B: I think that he, that he...
A: yes yes.. I thought...
B: Yes yes
A: If we say 20 then. Chase... so much I. I'm just glad to help
B: ... two full.. then you have 50...
A: Yes yes
B: So you have.. also.. 25 then. I have..
A: I don't think maybe you know who he sees. He's called [name removed], called. He's from Vestfold.
B: [name removed], what then?
A: ... To family name. He's a very good friend of his... they're those who... at a party... one time.. .huge house. The guy who owned the house is called Lars, I think.
A: I don't know his full name
B: [name removed]
A: Other yes...
A: Mmmmm (agrees)
A: Then, ...
B: Pay.. a Glock, and Glock is a little expensive
A: In any case 15
A: but I think, it's not certain that we get the best of the best. 15-16...
A: yes yes, he must that. He said money is not an problem.
B: then it's just enough to drive then
A: Yes, so said
A: .... I said it's not that... have a little more then.. trouble, I just hope that's it... I'm a good friend of yours.
B: Yes.. 22 then?
B: Now I don't know if he has any possibilities then, but if you will then can contact him.
A: Take also do it, or it's not so very important for me because I...
B:... if he says yes I'll contact him
A: Yes. we see it like that then
B: Yes... a little such artificial principles (uncertain): he says yes to that, I'll make contact with him...
A: Mmmm (agrees)
B: ... answer before Friday
A: yes yes, then I'll meet him afterwards
B: Also... speak with you.. ehhh
A: Mmmm (agrees). Ok, then I say thanks you should have
B: Then we'll speak. Everything is <?>
(01:02:05 minutes into the recording the subject changes:)
B: ... is asked very little... other plans
A: Yes not true. Have you thought any more on...
A: Also I... I said...
A: ... cancel it?
B: Can't cancel it ...?
A: ... thought out many arguments to convince you not to do it.. that's it it will get interesting for this.
B: ... people then (uncertain)... can certainly damage the building.
A: Yes because in their religion then it's not like that...regardless then
B: No, it's not that.
A: So then it certainly becomes a mistake then.
B: As long as it's state employed then it's certainly good
A: Yes, but this...
B: ... there's certainly no war here (uncertain).
A: Then you had to travel...
B: I won't be stopped...
A: No, then ...
B: ... they start the service at 9.
A: Mmm (agrees)
B: And when the service starts then a patrol car comes, then they stand there with ...
A: Yes ...
B: ... they also stand there for an hour I think, go a little round in the park and then also go on their way and come back half an hour, three quarter of an hour, also come back to the guy when the rabbi comes out and.. before that isn't it, also completely at the end then. But then the Jews have their own security guards. And at least two always stand outside. But they are not armed, they have just such... not like.. then but, such that security guards go with.
A: Mmmm (agrees).
B: So at least two of them. Also it varies to four if there's something suspicious.
A; then, are stand...
B: It was?
A: [name removed] (hard to hear what he says)
B: Who [name removed]
A: He's a friend of [name removed] (uncertain of name).... was a friend of his before, but then.. so I'm not a friend of his any longer.
B: Yes.. also it's nine and half, no, when everything is ready then...
B: then there's always a patrol... but it's suspicious if...
B: I imagine that they.. yes, regardless then. The problem becomes then with shooting them is that they don't come in together. Some come at nine, some come at nine and a half, some come at ten, some come at ten and a half, some come at eleven, different times.
B: so they come at different times.. come in groups. And when they go, then they don't go together. If they had come together then.. to meet eight ten each.. if you imagine, then it goes.. don't go together. Then just when the rabbi goes. He who's their rabbi with beard and things. He goes to the side of two in plainclothes, also there's one such security guard at the side then.
A: Yes, yes.
B: ... Also they have a ... the security guard go round and building and check the cars, if there are bombs in the cars, go round all the cars then, true.
B: So to shoot.. don't go.. maybe one or two, it doesn't go...
B: So the only thing I thought was I take the whole building.
B: I chase.. hell my grenades
A: ... old ...
B: Precisely when I take the synagogue.. a grenade, maybe two... the same night you know.
A: Mmmm (agrees)
B: Because I've first taken a, then it becomes so in hell with the security that it becomes he to get taken.. and I give a shit if the security guard at the American embassy die, they are on American soil, I shit on them, and holds for the Israelis and because if the night, when there's no people, it affects the equipment
A: Yes I know that certainly.
B: You understand what I think, the equipment. And the equipment... if something goes wrong and becomes caught... a year and half, two years.. ... aim, during training... at the equipment... damage the building, and the equipment, but no people. And probably they.. people, I I regret..
A: exactly as they regret
B: Then I regret it the most, but that's what happens.
A: Happens like this yes. As they say...
B: Right, that's accurate. Isn't it, then I have, then must ...
B: ... I have certainly three then... four with you then.
A: Then two, three others of the same caliber as you, me and [name removed], that do it
B: Yes, two there. Muslims.. friends.. throw grenades at the embassy, come driving with a car right
A: yes yes, it's not a problem
B: Then this way he can just have one man at the Israeli embassy and one man at the American embassy.
(the two speak at the same time)
B: (whispers one or another)
A: It's worse at the Israeli and embassy, that's the most difficult. The American will be the most difficult.
B: It's just to throw when one drive past, it's not far true you have a stolen car.
B: You have a high necked sweater so just the eyes are seen. Because they can track your whole face with the cameras there.. data,height and weight and certainly such things.
A: Everything there will become one hell such thing.
B: ... high-necked isn't it, so just the eyes are seen. Then sit.. drive.. then throw... keep inside. then I don't escape.. also when it's precisely forbidden, svish (sound like he throws the grenade out the window).
B: Yes that's driven also. It's seven seconds.
A: There won't be damage... in any case
(Unclear what is said, but 'american embassy' is named)
B: Doesn't matter, it's just guards. Can certainly meet guards.. security guards.
A: It's soldiers.
B: There's a fence.. attack
A: ... through
B: No over.
A: It's difficult also.
A: It's high also.
B: No it's not so, throw high also.
A: I wonder if it blows up then.. seven seconds. It's possible that it will be difficult.
B: Can meet.. outside the fined. Then go about 20 meter.. when it explodes (Possible he makes an explosion effect. irrespective the effect of the grenade he aims at). Then that will cause damage.
A: Also that that is true that lots of other people go then.
B: At night, it becomes difficult.
A: on a weekday...
B: Monday, Tuesday
A: Sunday night...
B: ... then they sit there ...
A: <?> drove by... it will become a chase then, car chase.
B: Yes, the car is far.
B: It's certainly a stolen car naturally.
B: So it's not possible to take the number.. that's there. ... Then that's the case. [name removed]
B: ... just get one, then there's so much security...
A: yes ... how can we be caught before anybody ...
B: They come to meet... not ordered ... they come to investigate as they never did before because it will be such internationally based you'll see, and nationally based.. come to use all means to find a solution for it.. how it happened, where it came from.. everything you'll see.
A: Before it happens, if I will join then I have... sign up with Elden or another lawyer firm, such that I'm inside the system
B: ... can't... (laughs)
A: ... a or another office, you understand. Also.. get acquainted with lawyer people... people who have taken weapons from somebody and just hell and that was certainly just that.
B: None of this is any problem but I don't consider how you'll be caught. But you, you'll be.. that's like no, if you had joined.. I'm the first that will be <?>... they will use.. catch me.
A: Mmmm (agrees)
B: Then they come, interrogate. And they come to investigate everything round me, and then you come into the picture... investigate bla bla bla. Then the question is if they can find out who it is or not. As long as you're not outside, but sit in the car, then it's...
(They begin to speak with a third person, who sounds like he's outside the car. The person is marked as X)
X: What's happening?
A: No, nothing. What's with you?
X: Nothing, it goes well.
A: come and I greet properly.
(A and X continue to talk, but the discussion becomes unclear. Possibly A got out of the car instead of speaking through the window)
A: ... he has (sounds as if they speak about X)
A: Naturally, we do that. Bloody good. Think he has... before. He has... you see. Oh.. .but just.. and hear a bit what he works with.
B: ... take a bit of food...
A: We do that ...
B: I'm certainly exhausted too.
B: Become really exhausted by driving around
B: You, you got the letter or, from...
A: Yes i have the letter.
B: Not true ...
A: Yes. but but, eh, not true.
B: That's good.
A: ... Lost his number, can get new right. Can rent out his number for good money. I speak with a man now instead.
A: Yes yes lost. Can rent out the number you know.
B: Probably it's lost isn't it, you don't know what other do with the number.
A: He's the one I asked he runs one like that.
B: Outside the city yes!
A: No he runs one such a club/bar here in the city now. Just next to the municipality.
B: That's also good. Door guard.
A: Yes ... take with you the stuff there
B: ... be helpful..train... day... together...
A: Take him with you also.. you can train.
B: You can be there to train, he's lazy, you can be there to train
B: ... On Thursday then we can see how that's that
A: But now I'm tall and thin I'll get worn out certainly?
B: No no no, you'll be good, you'll be good you know . You're bloody tall. You'll be insanely good, you have long legs.
A: Yes, I have long legs and arms.
B: You can lock people with help you now
B: but, others then so... send.. the application.. got maybe a no in recent years, but...
A: Then... just seven years ago.
B: ... at a backroom (uncertain) then can they certainly say, eh
A: No they won't have...
B: But judicially then they can't deny... also. Judicially. Then probably we threatened with the court then... but it becomes then hell.... (much unclear).
B: Think of the women then! The women come to see that... you come to notice
B: (speaks of how A looks).
A: Pay attention so people don't become such an idiot then.
B: We'll work... I speak with Markus he's Swedish... when I get permission to do that.
Source: Dagbladet (Norwegian)
See also: Norway: First terrorism trial opens