A court in French-Flanders annulled a marriage since the bride turned out not to be a virgin, report French newspaper Libération. The judges came to the conclusion that the bridegroom was deceived concerning an 'essential characteristic' of the bride, who had assured him before the wedding that she was still virgin.
The judges therefore decided to apply a law which is seldom used.
Both bride and groom are young French Muslims. "Completely not extremists," according to the groom's lawyer. The family of the bride had presented her as "single and chaste". The fraud was revealed when on the wedding night the groom could not show blood spots on the sheets to the feasting family. The groom's father brought the bride back to her parents.
The bride confessed that she had had sex before, and that she had concealed that fact since she was sure her boyfriend wouldn't marry her if she wasn't a virgin.
Marriages are seldom annulled retroactively in France. Law article 180 was formerly used if the bride kept silent about having worked as a prostitute or if somebody wasn't able to have sexual intercourse
Sources: Telegraaf (Dutch), Libération (French), h/t NRP (Dutch)
See also: Netherlands: High demand for "virgin pill", Netherlands: Restoring virginity (2), France: Regaining virginity, European Muslim women go to extremes to be virgins (again)
56 comments:
Sounds like the groom is a 6th Century throwback! Send them back to their sand pit!
I wasn't a virgin on my wedding night either, but I bled when my wife accidentally broke my nose taking off her dress. I didn't think of divorcing her. I was too concerned about the rest of the honeymoon to worry about much of anything.
Ah, to be young again... and anything but a Muslim.
Seriously? How many chicks actually break their hymen having sex? I broke mine riding my bike when I was ten and I hit a pothole. I was also on the swim team and have worn tampons since I was 12. I also engaged in heavy petting for several years before having sex, which would not preclude my being a virgin in any way. That is absolutely medieval. We'll see how 'totally not radical" her family is when they kill her. She could have had that "fixed" with a little surgery involving a single stitch. Lots of vorgin chicks do that in the Middle East just to make sure their families don't kill them, or if the get raped by their brother or other family member, which is extremely common.
Dag, You're my hero... in a totally straight, non-Muslim way.
And a very macho "Thank you" to you, Dean.
I just hope you're not the poor guy who ended up marrying my wife after she left for some other guy! If that's the case, well, thanks for that too.
Virgin brids, blood spot on the sheets. Cant believe Muslims think this is civilised. Everthing I read about this culture is backwards and male dominated.
Native-born Muslimahs don't stand much good chance in the marriage market in Europe because the families can always, it seems, hire out for a compliant cousin in the old country to marry any guy who can't find a girl who knows him and has a choice of any kind in the matter. Most Muslim girls don't like Muslim guys once they compare them to Europeans. That says a lot more than it might on the surface. It says that most Muslim girls are willing to forgo all the thousands of years of biology that have made her people attractive enough to each other to keep the ethnic group coherent. Even that immediate and usually overwhelming attraction is gone in the face of a brutal bully who kills. It's a deep need to be with ones one and to reproduce oneself in a marriage with children in a community of ones own. The proof is that we have ethnic communities at all, and we do. We have them because women look at men and see characteristics that appeal, and they continue toward that characteristic till most people in the group share those characteristics. That's the making of ethnicity. Thus, to look at ones own and recoil in shock and fear, to abandon ones one need to reproduce oneself tells that things are terribly wrong with oneself and community.
Europeans, to a lesser extent American liberals, have abandoned families as the goal of life, regardless of ethnicity, in favor of hedonism. There's nothing to say in condemnation of a person's choice to be a solitary pleasure seeker. The population dwindles to next to nothing while the Muslims continue to grow into the replacement population the European natives don't care to have themselves. Saying that we are all one and it matters not who is here or there, it's a convenient lie and one there's no point responding to. People make up their own minds and live their own lives and the nation lives or dies accordingly.
So, we see a European population dedicated to goofing-off and dying out in the state of sated hippie-dom and we see Muslim girls murdered by their families and being replaced by compliant village idiots from the old country. one solution to it, if one cares, is for European men who would like to have families to make themselves attractive to immigrant women who wish to have families. Many Muslim women would prefer a European man who won't beat, bully and bugger her even over a man who is part of her preferred breeding group. But European men, generally far better suited to married life with a woman he loves and respects than the average peasant Muslim, is just as conditioned to a life of hedonism as the childless women of Europe.
European guys have a great chance to find Muslim women to love and have families with. But they don't even seem to care about that much in life. Muslim women, having a choice of a good European man, don't really have that choice because those men, regardless of how much more attractive they are over-all, don't even care. Muslim women,faced with someone they don't like or waiting for Mr. Right to finally stop fooling around in life, marry the guy they can get instead.
If Muslim men had to compete against European men for Muslim women, if they couldn't just get some village girl from back home instead but had to compete for a girl and win, then you'd soon see a lot of very well-behaved and attentive Muslim men indeed.
But one must like women to care about this question, an I have to wonder what the average European guy feels about them or anything else. Often it seems that the only reason European men don't fuss about virginity is because they just don't care who they have sex with that night. It's hardly better than being a Muslim to treat women like that. When women are looked upon as sex monkeys, it hardly matters from which viewpoint that comes about.
Ladies, if you're looking for a good man to marry and have a family with I'd be just right if I weren't way too old and one who learned this all far too late in life, to my endless regret.
Yes, I sit with women my age and we look at each other and we just shake our heads in dismay at our foolishness. A painful thing. And too late to fix for us.
Silly Girl, should have arranged her wedding to coincide with her period...
Hi Dag,
Who said that Muslim women prefer Europeans? I don't know how much a Moroccan woman sees non-Muslim, non-Moroccan men as an option, but studies show they prefer their countrymen back home over their fellow immigrants, at least.
Marriage immigration is not restricted to immigrants. Many European men prefer a woman from Eastern Europe or from Asia, who will be nice, polite and make them dinner, over an independent woman from their own country.
I also saw a recent article about Russian marriage-migration to Turkey.
So, so far it seems women are at a disadvantage. If they demand too much, men will just look elsewhere. Male marriage migration is not as common, I think. Probably since the most polite and equality thinking men are right at home.
My point about European men being more attractive to Muslim women was mean as an admonition more than a reflection of reality. European men should have more to offer a woman who will otherwise be beaten and maltreated for her whole life if she chooses a fellow Muslim. However, if European men are more beastly in different ways, who want them over the men one is a part of? On the face of it, European men should be a hot item for Muslim women. They aren't. Why not?
Firstly Muslim women are committed to their homes and families. They control the culture to a vast extent, as we see in the old saw, "Whose hand rocks the cradle rules the world." Women are invested in perpetuating the culture and the ethnic group. If common decency, which one would assume of the average European male, is missing, there's no advantage to them at all over a traditional male who will keep the family intact and the culture.in short, European men haven't got much going for them on the marriage market if they can't compete with savages. If European men can't find a European girl from the neighbourhood, if they have to go to the Phillipines for a bride, if n local girl will have them, it says too much about the average European guy. Do they even care?
If a girl has a choice between a man who will rape her, mutilate her, trash her life and have children and be a husband in the community of ones own people and the competition is some pot-smoking goof who screws around till he takes off for good, the choice is pretty simple.
The "exotophilia" we see here in Canada is shocking and embarrassing, of 70 year old men flocking to Asia to find docile peasant girls who come here, see how others live, and flee as soon as they can collect welfare and move into an ethnic ghetto. Young men have no interest in young women, to a great extent, because they have more interest in video games than in raising families. Given the nature of how things seem to be in many European ethnic communities here, no wonder a girl would reject these men in favor of someone traditional, if brutal and even dangerous.
On the face of it, European men should be a great catch over a primitive bully. It says something horrible about the average guy that women would rather have anyone else.
Yes, I've met Russian women in Africa who have Russian husbands and African boyfriends on the side, the boyfriends allowing the couple to survive financially because the Russian man is too dysfunctional to survive on his own and the woman too committed to just dump him.
I'm afraid to look in a mirror. How is it that we in the West are so unattractive that we can't even find our own women attractive enough to be with? UGH. Here in Canada many European women just stay single and childless. The options are often too dismal for anything else. European men should be the first choice for European women on simple ethnic selection grounds, and especially on grounds of cultural compatibility, and social ties; and all others around the world should be lining up for a European man for the sake of a stable life and good home and healthy family. The usual fact that they aren't is devastating.
I don't blame men for the whole problem, but since I am one myself I know that side of it better. I have no attempted solution to offer here. I'm just amazed and discouraged that men who should have everything to offer women seem to have less than some brutal woman-hating savage.
Guys, what are you thinking?!
Europe is not childless, of course, but Spain, for example, is reproducing its native population at, off the top of my head, 1.2 children per couple, meaning that each generation is half what the parent's generation is. The natives are not reproducing enough to replace their population; therefore, ff the top of my head again with the figures, Spain is asking the world for 2 million immigrants per year for the next twenty years to keep the place occupied. And England is gaining roughly 2 million immigrants per year while losing half a million natives to emigration.
Look at it in terms of prudence: If the natives who know how to run things leave and are replaced by immigrants from third world nations who do no know how to run things, who will feed people? Not just the English, who will feed the third world? If those with the skills to keep the nation functioning as it is, i.e. those with the social capital of the nation, not just the cash in the bank from mafia dealings, those with the know-how to make the modern economy, decide to leave, who maintains the nation? Who transfers skills. And without the skills, who feeds the world?
It is Modernity, not Islam, that feeds people because of Modernity's epistemology, not simply technology, but the epistemology of Reason. Islam doesn't have it. nor Buddhism nor Confucianism, and so on. Without the standards of modernity, there will to be the surplus of food to give to the rest of the wanting world.
Of course there are children, mostly immigrant children, and those who do not have the intellectual heritage to maintain and reproduce our Modernity because they are not Modernists in the mind but primitive. It takes generations to develop children who think as Modernists. The training as technologists allows for men to fly aeroplanes but the mind of a Modernist makes it likely the pilot will land the plane safely. And the Modernist will have to make the plane, design it, and innovate in doing so. Exotic and colorful people, whatever else their charms, are not Modernists.
But there's more to life than making technologies. There has to be a commitment to life itself. European men should rise in the morning not for the sake of going to work to make a lot of money but to make a lot of money to support their wives and children. The latter is missing, it would seem from the birth rates among native European men.
Money is great, but family either comes first or there's little point in a few generations. And then the money stops coming in too.
Why are we alive? What's the reason for living? What is the meaning of life? People are embarrassed by such questions, thinking them puerile. There is no "meaning," man. Just do it. Or some such cliche. And where are the babies?
In the ghettos.
There are genuine good reasons for insisting on virginity prior to marriage. Off the top of my head, as it were, try this: a husband can be sure or thereabouts that if his wife is a virgin on their wedding night that the girl hasn't been raped by her father and brothers previously. Whose advantage is that?
Marriage? It makes it very difficult for a man to ditch the girl the next day after having invested his prestige in a public ceremony proclaiming he's going to stay with a girl for all of his life.
And so on it goes, the seemingly sexist and out-dated things we despise having some basis in practical living to the over-all benefit of women more often than not. It' not perfect, but it helps to have some rules men are basically pushed to abide by regardless of their personal whims.
But to demand only the ritual of virginity is as brainless as any animal rutting. Islam is the idiocy of orthopraxy unmediated by orthodoxy. All the right practice on Earth leads to purdah and honor killing when it is uninformed by Reason and the pursuit of unfolding truth. The incredible hubris of sharia is to insist they have al the moral answers now and forever and that one cannot question but only imitate what has gone before. The intellectual inbreeding of Islam creates monster cultures such as we see today.
Little better is the reliance on "post-modernist" cliches about sexism and racism to define our collective identities and mediate our disputes as individuals within the General Will. Where's the gain in a nihilist orthodoxy?
In our enlightened Modernity men and women have a right, if not a duty, to join in interpersonal social unions for the purpose of living as equal partners to mutual advantage and for the sake of rearing independent children to adulthood. It's a free choice of mature individuals.
To fall into the Idealist understanding of reality as 'there and perfect, but also here potentially so' is to disregard the possible for the desirable. The Idealist vision leads to Platonist fascism every time. Forget the phantasies and look at the real world in all its mediocrity as the best there is in the best of all possible worlds.
Virginity? Sexism? Move over. Do we want to have children and live a reasonable life to raise them up so they can do the same, or do we wish to pursue some perfect ideal that might come later if only we correct all the people who are getting in the way of the coming possible utopia?
One phantasy is no better than another. Kids are real. Your mate is a person. That's the unhappy reality we all have to endure to the best of our abilities. I kind of like it, boring and mediocre guy that I am in my better moments.
Also, either these women have to necessarily get married at an inappropriately, self-destructively, absolutely mind-bogglingly idiotically young age, or be deprived of basic health care, including a PAP smear and a pelvic. That would necessitate a broken hymen and a fair amount of stretching. I haven't been a virgin for 12 years and the speculum still damn near rips me in half. It's designed for mothers of 5. So Muslim women have to marry at 18 (in Western nations; more like 9-11 in Muslim nations) or be denied basic healthcare. ANd if she receives basic healthcare she's a slut who has destroyed her family's "honor." Great logic, Muslims. Nice values too.
How come in Europe a marriage is annulled on the grounds of virginity?
Because it can be considered fraud if she purported herself to be a virgin. She has to check a box on the Sharia institutionalized prostitution contract for 'virgin.' Of course if she checks it, her family burns her alive. Men also get 4 spaces for wives on the Sharia institutionalized prostitution contract.
No Exit.
Ashman raise a point of alliance: We see many Muslims and a fair number of dhimmis condemning the West for it's moral failures, particularly it's sexual behavior. The "West as Christian" is seen as the problem in that the Christian West isn't shari'a-ruled, in which case Christian morality, as Muslims would prefer, would be replaced by a better, if even perfect, moral code. It's laughable that those Muslims who condemn the West for its moral failure find their only assertive allies in the West among those who use "Progressive Liberalism" as the ideological foundation to support the moral and cultural relativism responsible for the decline of morality in the West to begin with. It's not Christians and other conservatives who laud the decline of personal morality and social responsibility; in that they are often on the same side as Muslims, though in entirely different ways and means. It is the Left dhimmi fascism of the West that supports the moralistic fascism of Islam against Western conservative moralism. So to find a Muslim condemning conservativism for the failure of Liberalism is to laugh.
One specificity of Islam is it's orthodox demand, current, stand, and in practice today, that Muslim apostates be murdered. Try as one might to portray all religions as equally evil, Islam is objectively unique in its canonical calls for murder. No, Arjuna is not calling for the murder of enemies today, simply because one might read violent passages in the Gita. Only Islam does so. Only Islam is unreformable. And because te Qur'an is considered by orthodox Muslims to be the immutable word of Allah, because the violence in the Qur'an abrogates the pacifistic passages, because it is canonical and orthodox to consider Mohammed to be the perfect man all others should attempt to mimic in the minutest details, because of those three aspects of Islam, just as a start, one cannot reform Islam. If one cannot reform the religion that Identifies Muslims, then one cannot expect to reform the man. If the average orthopraxic Muslim man, given that he must by nature of his religious practice be a savage who denigrates women, is a misogynist, and if knowing all this and choosing freely to marry a Muslim man rather than a man of European culture, a woman still chooses to marry a Muslim man, if she has any choice, then it says something deeply discouraging about European culture and its men.
Oh, please. I'm a Muslim myself, and I personally think the asshole who did this to his wife should burn in the fiery pits of hell for all of eternity. I'd like to see how many Muslim MEN are virgins before their marriages these days. Hmph.
People swear like every individual gets laid for the sexual pleasure. Some people don't understand that people fall in love every now and then. You know, that classical phenomena. The Muslim community is so averse to and hypocritical of marriages between varying cultures, religions, and ethnicities that if you're one of those unfortunate individuals who fall in love with someone that is "different," you're pretty much screwed for life.
Society will not let you marry the person you love because of your worldly differences. At least not without giving you hell. So what are you to do?
Let's say you act like a human and choose to still share your unconditional love with the object of your affection. Nothing wrong there, right? You're a human and you should have the fundamental right to live your own life.
WRONG! The damned Muslim community won't hear of it. They will keep their own bs hidden, but openly point fingers at you for doing something as pure as LOVE someone.
And what will you do in return? You will not willingly bring further shame on your family. You will not hurt others because of your choice. And so you make the ultimate sacrifice and break up with the person you love and doom yourself to an arranged marriage which is based on lies and deceit, because you cannot be YOURSELF in it.
Honestly, marriage is supposed to the meeting of two SOULS, not two bodies. And it says this in the Quran, so no Muslim should deny it.
Matrimony should be based on truth, understanding, love and support. Not on someone's ability to prove him/herself a virgin.
It is DISGUSTING how some men AND woman are willing to overlook the beauties of an individual's soul and personality simply because that individual seems to have a "physical fault."
"Love" is something relatively new in the world of Man, mostly Western,and mostly from what we would term the Middle Class," i.e. those who can afford the luxury of sentimentalizing marriage. Those without property cannot afford the luxury of making a marriage based on sentiment; and those with a great deal of property don't wish to risk it by passing it on to unknown qualities in families. Hence, one finds cousin marrying a big thing in the primitive world of Islam, just as one finds the same or similar in the royal families of Europe.
I'm lovable. No, really. I am.
'Love' is rumoured to have started in the middle ages. It was called courtly love and was the chaste love of a knight for the kings wife viz: Lancelot & Guinevere. Or was it Galahad. I'm not sure. I mean Lancelot & Guinevere. Not Lancelot & Galahad.
It was a romantic love with troubadors, poems and dropped handkerchieves. Then sex crept in and courtly love became crude.
Nothing to do with Islam but as Islam did not have chivalrous knights who climbed up towers to save the damsel in distress that may be why 'love' (& women) are not so important in Islam.
I am dating a very charming, muslim from Eastern Europe and we both very much like each other. My guess is that because I am not muslim, are divorced and have a kid I should ran the other way and FAST! right? I am not that familiar with muslim and Bosnian culture but I dont anticipate dating a muslim man has much of a future unless you are a muslim.
You now better than others about the fellow you're dating, but do look into things even your boy-friend might not know about himself and couldn't tell you even if he would.
Consider that he comes from a war-zone. What did that do to him, whether he was in it or not. What's it like for him to walk down the street? Does he have a feeling somewhere deep down that he might be killed on the spot? How does he think about fate? Is he a long-term thinker or does he live for now, insh'allah? And will he do good for you tomorrow? Maybe he's European today, a swinging guy, a load of fun. But what if he realizes he's a Muslim tomorrow? What if all the war stories and distant memories come home to him in a flash and you're 'One Of Them'? Will he ask his second or third or fourth wife if he should pronounce talaq or if he should just murder you? Look into honor killing in Bosnia.
Look at rape and marriage in Islam. Ask what it means for a Muslim man to plow his wife like a tilth, as it says in the Qu'ran. What about the customs of beating women who upset their husbands? It's all in the Qu'ran, and he won't argue with it. Not always, at least, and it only needs you to lose once to prove the game over for you.
What if you have kids? Do you realize that if you do, you will have no legal custody over them? If your husband is a Muslim and takes you and the kids to a Muslim country under sharia, only he will have rights, and he will be among others who reinforce his beliefs, even those he might not have yet.
Is he blond, by chance? Ask yourself why so many Bosnian Muslims are blond and why so many Bosnian Christians are dark-haired like the Eastern Turks. That would be due to the Muslims raping the Christians.
Even if the boy-friend is wonderful, what about his family? And I don't mean solely his mom and dad but his brothers and cousins and uncles. They are family too, and if you aren't one of them, you're an outsider. Familism is nice for a week or two but ask if you want to be embraced forever?
You'll have to convert regardless of how they treat you, it not being allowed in Islam for a man to marry a non-Muslim. Look it up. If you have kids, they are automatically Muslim too, and there is a death penalty for apostasy, even for children. Born a Muslim, always a Muslim. There is no running away. You condemn your children to Islam, whether they want it or not.
Non-Muslim women are "unclean," sorry to say. Regardless of how much he might like you now, later it will come to him that you are not like the wives of his companions. I won't go into the personal details of ritual cleanliness you will have to go through. Look up wudhu. Look up zina. Look up all you can about Islam. If you like any of it, that's your choice, obviously, but then you wouldn't have come this far in looking around for reassurance. Find out more so you know that in fleeing this guy, even as friends forever, you made a good decision for yourself and for your children.
Click on my name here to get my address and let me know someday how you decided. I hope for the best for you and yours.
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