A father (35) of two sons from Hoofddorp was acquitted of abusing his children after circumcising them without their mother's permission. The man, a Moroccan Muslim who is divorced, had circumcised his sons, ages 3 and 6, while they were by him on a weekend in 2005.
Male circumcision is not illegal on its own in the Netherlands, but because in this case was performed against the mother's wishes, the public prosecution decided to prosecute the man.
The Amsterdam court decided that there is no issue of abuse. Male circumcision is, according ot the judges, 'socially embedded' and should not regarded as abuse or mutilation.
The judges did convict the man for taking the kids from parental authority, the second fact for which he was prosecuted. He should not have taken his kids to the doctor without their mother's consent. For this he was sentenced to a suspended sentence of six weeks in prison. The prosecution had asked for six weeks for abuse and for four months for taking the kids.
The father said that the children had been by him during that weekend with their mother's permission, and therefore he did not take them from parental authority.
The mother, who is Dutch, had told the police that in the past she had agreed to the circumcision, but after the divorce decided that they should decide on their own when they were old enough.
The doctor who performed the circumcision and who neglected to check whether the father had legal authority over the boys, was cautioned by the medical disciplinary tribunal.
Sources: Telegraaf, Parool (Dutch)
19 comments:
So why do you find it neccessary to empathize on "The man, a Moroccan Muslim..." of what use is this? are you like an anti-islam or what?
Hi anonymous,
I'm like a blogger who writes about Islam in Europe. If this man would not have been Muslim or would have lived outside Europe, I would probably not have written about it at all.
Still havn't answerd my questn here, are you anti-islam???judging by your older posts, i can say you are! then comes the questn of WHY? what ever have they done to you? people need understand that bcoz others do evil or bad things does not make their WHOLE race, tirbe or religious people evil too! one should be judged by the content of their character and nothing else PLEASE!!!
Hi anonymous,
Your basic premise is not logical since the man circumcised his sons *because* of his faith. In other words, his faith is a major issue in the story. Of the sources I brought, one did not mention it at all, and just left readers to wonder why it was so important to him.
I answered your question - I blog about Islam and Muslims in Europe. If I see a story about Muslims in Europe, and I think it's interesting, I write about it.
"...make their WHOLE race..."
Islam, isn't like a 'race', at all!
Its a religion that literally encompasses ALL races, enough with the PC BS.
-Mike
It is important to see how people who follow a certain doctrine are influenced by that doctrine. Islam is a doctrine that demands its followers to conform to certain ideals. If by following those ideals they commit criminal acts such as honour klling, forced marriages, flogging adulterers, punishing apostates etc it is a reflection of the doctrine that they follow.
@ esther
i am anon 10.48 i understand what you do, what i don't understand is the WHY? what pleasure do you derive or message you trying send here? coz what i can see here is your readers inflicting on the opposite, or maybe such is your intention?! nevertheless i do enjoy reader your posts and would continue doing so for as long as i can.
@Mike
Did you not see what i said after? "...their WHOLE race, tirbe or religious people evil too!.." that's why there was a comma, was talking about everything in general including religion!!! please try read and udnerstand before you comment. And it is a free world so i do not understand why you should tell me what and what not to do,noone asked you to comment on something that wasn't referd to you, but as i said is a free world and you decided to do so.So please let others BE!we are NOT here to fight!!
@ anon 5.40
I advice you to read deeper into something and understand it in full DEPTH before you comment or reference on it.
Islam is nothing of such my friend.All you just said is what AMERICA portrays islam to be, through its sensless and endless wars against islamic countries and so called "terrorist" that SOME HOW can not be found or defeated.'Islam' the WORD itself means: PEACE, what kind of religion would bear such a name and not implicate its meaning what so ever??
If you say a religion demands its followers to "...commit criminal acts such as honour klling, forced marriages, flogging adulterers, punishing apostates etc " then islam simply is NOT a religion! A religion is suppose to be a guidence to GOOD not BAD! if SOME islamic people do so, wouldn't you logically ask yourself, "something is worng here" ? Those people that do all those bad things MAY be muslims that do not follow their religion according to its rules, or simply they could be ANOTHER anit-islamic persons with fake identity trying destory the image of islam!
Those that kill themselves claiming islam agrees to do so, would only die and wait for their jugdment coz islam NEVER in ANY way what so ever agree to a killing of another fellow human being.And the so called "jahad" they do and cry "Allahu Akabar" before they die is not JAHAD! To explain what jahad is would take me a WHOLE blog, and i have already taken so much of Ms.Esther's comment space (forgive me).
Indians are known for their arranged/forced marriages, maybe the muslim indians are what got you oconfused as to islam agreeing to forced marriages, bocz WOMEN in islam have ALOT if not more rights than MEN! See here please: http://www.themuslimwoman.com/herrights/womensrights.htm
'Flogging adulterers', is infact the ONLY right thing you have mentioned. Yes, islam demands the public flogging of adulterers with reason (another depth topic).There are analyzed and complicated steps to follow before such is done; first of all there must be THREE or more LIVE witnesses,present while such is done, must be three pure and well respect people of the community (how often do such people witnesses such an act? please?). So you see, i don't think such is done any more. But let me ask you what religion embraces adultery?
'Punishing apostates' is another depth topic such as flogging of adultery. See; http://www.islamicperspectives.com/Stoning2.htm
Well i have tried my best to clear those, for islam just like any other religion is critical and complicated, trying learn alot new things myself but if you still got some more to ask about please be free to do so, and i would try my best to answer them or refer you to a relaible source. But do not refer islam is a doctrine religion, for is NOTHING near that!
To All: Thank you and be well.
And if i may, add that there are ALOT categories of muslims...see here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam#Denominations
Islam itself; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Peace
Punishing of apostates in islam; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam
Flogging adulterers in islam; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zina_%28Arabic%29
Forced marriages in islam (as there's NO such thing) see marriage in islam here; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_in_Islam
Thank you!
hey anonymous:
its NOT a free world. especially if you live in an islamic country.
since when did a muslim man seek the consent of any of his wives for anything?
Urban11
Hi all, please do NOT believe the LIES and DECEIT that muslims and their apologists use, such as: islam meaning "peace". IT DOES NOT!
It means SUBMISSION. Remember that DECEIT and LYINg is permitted and ENCOURAGED by Koran and Hadith, in order to advance islam. Mohammed did it, A LOT, making treaties with rival tribes, Jews etc, only to break his words. Why is islam violent, aggressive and totally intolerant to everything not islamic? Because Mo was a sick, deluded, and completely paranoid and megalomaniac control freak, who carried out wanton acts of violence, rapine, robbing, genocide, and plunder against anyone who did not take his" prophethood" seriously! If you want to understand an ideology, study it's founder's deeds and words and scriptures, plus the history of the said ideology, which is soaked in blood from day one! Even as Mo died, rivals were already at each other's throats, killing each other off. Islam, Divinely revealed? NO WAY! Divine knowledge is NEVER spread through hatred and violence. And Mo was nothing but a common and despicable paedophilist criminal. Wake up and expose the ARAB FASCISM islam (Mohammedanism) and reject is like Nazism and any other form of tyrannical ideology. Strip it from it's "religion" status, as it is clearly not a religion, but a PSEUDO spiritual dictatorship. The best favour you can do to muslims is to free their hearts and minds from the grasp of islam, for they are Mo's first victims!
Islam cannot possibly be a religion. What other religion allow lying. Muslims even have a word for it. Taqiyya.
Muhammad was a liar. He wanted the poet Kab bin al-Ashraf killed and told the assassin to lie in order to kill.
A religion based upon a liar & assassin is not a religion of god.. Only Satan approves of lying and killing.
"...And it is a free world so i do not understand why you should tell me what and what not to do,noone..."
Wow, genius, way to destroy your own argument against Ester and this blog. Really, what is your motivation anonymous? Seriously, what are you so worried about?
Should there be reporting about islam?
-Mike
Just incredible words...did you study islam, are you a muslim ?
I can't believe such a topic could exist... Partisans of this group mix up everything and use every clichés that exist !
You mix up muslims and fundamentalist . How can you imagine that all muslims 1.5 billion of them want to kill every "infidel", wear specific clothes, are liers... ? Are you completely stupid, this is insane !!! I live in France, and I can tell you that 99 percent of french muslims don't have any desire of murder !!
Beside it seems that you forgot that EVERY religions have extremists ! It's not specific to Islam, as proof of the Waco freaks in Texas, the Popes during the crusades, Ygal Amir who murdered Ytzhak Rabin because he wanted peace, the christian Church during the Inquisition....
Where is the tolerance ? the critical thinking ? All I can see is ignorance and xenophobia concealed behind cliches . . .
Mike just give up, coz i don't think you understand or can comprehend with what i write as much as you think you can! u told me to stop the PC BS and that was my respond to you. And my reason is only for that fact that u are ALL getting it wrong!! How can a religion of centuries suddenly turn to a bloodthrist religion?? Just bcoz muslims have had history of war in the pass does not make them so!
Have you read the Old Testament lately? How much god-sanctioned murder and killing is in that? Do we accuse law-abiding Christians of cover-ups, as you are doing to muslims, because of that? I didnt think so...Christians have also killed people for religious reasons... look up the crusades.
The right-wing and skinheads are growing big time in Europe. And all just beacuse people want to get rid of Muslims! I think World War Three is coming...
If you ask an woman child or man in Iraq, they would say the exactly same thing as you do right now (against islam) about the West. The only difference is that you have occupied their country, not them yours.
The country you see as an terrorist state today (Iraq),USA fed them with arms against Iran.. strange dont you think? Wasnt this a terrorist state back than? It was only 25-30 years ago... did the MUSLIMS they helped back than suddenly changed into terrorist? I think not.
In order to understand each other, in order to peacefully co-exist, as, in the past, Muslims have peacefully co-existed with non-Muslims, we must refrain from attacking each other; spark debate, converse, present facts and evidence, listen to people's perspectives and evidence - this is tolerant, this is good. We are all people under God and to strive for peace and understanding.
Have a nice day.
"...we must refrain from attacking each other; spark debate, converse, present facts and evidence, listen to people's perspectives and evidence - this is tolerant, this is good..."
I appreciate your point of view. Is that not what this blog is doing?
"...How can a religion of centuries suddenly turn to a bloodthrist religion??..."
Suddenly, do you even know the history of Islam?
How did it spread so fast? Did muhammad lead military battles, 'defensive' or not?
Sure, Abraham of the Old testament was similar, but the Jews did not try and forcibly spread their religion to the masses.
Jesus of Christianity, never hurt a fly, and was executed for his beliefs, he never attacked anyone, and never preached war. In fact the idea of...
"if someone slap you, turn the other cheek"
..was in fact, a revolutionary idea, a significant change of thought from the time it came about!
Christianity didn't become violent until it was adopted by the Roman Government, some 300 years after its creation, FACT!
Governments and religion do not go hand in hand, something muslims and Islam cannot comprehend.
How many true democracies are in middle east? How are minority religions treated there?
I would love to discuss with you, but not when you don't even have a basic understanding of the subject.
-Mike
Turly Mr.Mike, if you to know or see me, and see my size, shame would forbid you to speak no more.
I presume it amuses you to argue on a religion you or topic, you yourself did NOT grow in, let alone KNOW what so ever! I adivce YOU be the one to go and learn on the good AND clear out the bad sides,that seem to cloud your judgement, of islam, BEFORE you say no more. But if you feel to continue to be ignorant and arrogant about what you FEEL you know, then so be it!
Someone commented on this blog a while ago with "Ours (islam) is a religion of compassion and forgiveness and reconciliation to God. Once the truth is out there, I hope that people then will come to know that the violence and repression of Islam was never intended by God upon mankind."
And this is a qoute from the Holy Qur'an;
Surely Allah wrongs not even the weight of a small ant,
and if it is a good deed he will multiply it.
{An-Nisaa(): 4:40} So i do not understand how you can call us lies and murders. How can Allah ask us to kill? Don't you even think logically somethings wrong here?
But you know what? i believe in the words that say:
(1) Say : O ye that reject Faith! (2) I worship not that which ye worship, (3) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (4) And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship, (5) Nor will ye worship that which I worship. (6) To you be your Way, and to me mine. {Al-Kaafirun (The Disbelievers): 1 - 6}
So to you be your way of trying to wipe out islam! All best my friend! I am only a 16 year old that was trying to clear some HUGE misunderstands of people against islam, and understand where all the anger and arrgession is coming from, but clearly am still not fit for it. Perhaps i need learn more....But for now sir i must say,
I REST MY CASE!
"...I presume it amuses you to argue on a religion you or topic, you yourself did NOT grow in..."
Look, its pretty obvious that you have inability to seperate your individual life as a muslim from the history of your religion.
I do not think that ALL muslims are bad, in fact, there are many things I respect about the Islamic faith. However, there is need to deny the documented history of anything.
"...How can Allah ask us to kill? Don't you even think logically somethings wrong here?..."
Of Course! Like all religious texts, there are CONTRADICTING passages.
This causes most muslims to read the positive passages and live their life to those teachings. Conversely, they are other muslims who take the evil, and negative passages and apply their life to those teachings.
"...So to you be your way of trying to wipe out islam! All best my friend!..."
Where the hell did I say that? I accurately wrote down the history of Islam, and all religions, and got really upset about it. I do not think anyone shoud 'wipe out islam'!
You are correct to say that all religions have a bloody past, but there is no point in getting angry about that fact now.
On a side note, if you're from france, speak english (pretty good I might add), and maybe a thrid language?, and only 16? Then you have a bright future ahead of you.
No need to get so worked up. We are all humans, most recognise that.
-Mike
Well I would like to stand up and say that I AM ANTI ISLAM!!!
and it is NOT a religion...it is a theocratic ideology that says be Islamic or be dead...that makes it a cult...a death cult that has grips on the world.
It is a political monster that has no room for living alongside any other religion or creed as an equal. It needs to dominate and subdue and Dhimmify.
SO to the muslim at the top of this page who was asking was someone ANTI ISLAM then YES I DEFINATELY AM !!!!!!
I am not anti pakistani, arab or any other race....I condemn and despise and hate ISLAM Death cult.
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