Mohammed cartoons reach Norway

Magazinet, a Norweigan magazine, has joined their Danish neighbors in being accused of blasphemy against Mohammed and against Islam. The magazine printed a series of cartoons depicting Mohammed in various settings. The cartoons originally appeared in the Danish newspaper Aftenposten in order to express freedom of expression.

Mohammad Hamdan, head of the Norweigan Supreme Islamic Council came out against the cartoons.

"What on earth does freedom of expression mean?" A furious Hamadan wondered.

"What is the real motive behind this act? Is it out of free speech or to insult Muslims who make up the largest minority in Norway?"

Hamdan said it is crystal-clear that the publishers want to trigger a sectarian sedition inside peaceful Norway.

Do they? Or maybe it is the other way around?

"We never heard of this magazine and had it not been for news agencies, we wouldn't have known about the publishing," Hamadan said.

He noted that this magazine did in no way speak for the Christian community in Norway.

"Some Christian organizations have already denounced in statements the magazine's act and distanced themselves from it," the Muslim leader said.

The Supreme Islamic Council is going to cause a major diplomatic incident over something that appeared in an "obscure" magazine? Wouldn't ignoring the whole thing be a little less insulting to Muslims?

Source: Islam Online (English)

A good summary of the Danish cartoon story can be found on Fjordman.


Esther said...


What racist websites? I went to an Islamic site that mentioned this site. I think people should have an idea what is being discussed.

And of course I agree with that newspaper. These cartoons are not racist, though you're welcome to explain how. Since I do not read Norwegian I can't know what the article itself says. I linked it in part hoping somebody would be able to tell me.

Esther said...

Hypocrisy would be if I would say one thing and do another. That is not the case at all.

Take this story:

An anti-semitic cartoon against Israel's prime minister featured in a British newspaper and thereafter won a prize.

The Israeli Embassy / Foreign ministry:
1. wrote a letter to the newspaper
2. complained to the British Press Complaints Division
3. considered suing the newspaper

The Israeli Embassy in London did not assume that this is a matter for the British prime minister, not did it turn to the UN. It turned to the people responsible for making sure free speech is not abused in the UK. They were turned down and told that free speech allowed such cartoons.

I fully expect the Muslims of Denmark or Norway to do the same. If a Muslim feels he has been directly hurt by these cartoons, he can sue the paper, he can turn to whatever organization is in charge of papers in Denmark, he can check anti-racism/anti-hate laws and see if they apply. Turning to the prime minister is showing a complete misunderstanding of the processes of free speech in a democracy.

Btw, notice that I had no trouble giving you a link to a cartoon that I find detestable. Notice that this picture appears on a pro-Israel site. How else would people know what everybody's talking about?

So far I have only seen articles ABOUT these cartoons on Mohammed. How can I make a rational decision whether they're racist/insulting if I haven't seen them? Have you seen them that you could make such a decision?

Now that I've seen them, I can say that I don't find them racist or insulting at all (of whatever I can read, of course, I don't understand Norwegian). I would be interested to know which pictures you find insulting and why.

Another issue, Theo van Gogh. He was not a saint. He said some very strong things against Muslims. He also said some very strong things against Jews. He think he managed to offend quite a few people. But I expect the Muslim community to ignore / deal with it in a lawful way, just as I expect the Jewish community to do so.

You can see some of his quotes here (and they are strong):

Should a Jew actually have killed Van Gogh - what do you think would have happened? Wouldn't ALL Dutch / world Jewish communities come out to denounce such a murder? Think about the last such murder by a Jew and about the last such murder by a Muslim. Think about the reactions of both communities and let me know why you feel I am the one being hypocritical here.

Esther said...

I disagree with you. An insulting cartoon of Moses, or any Jewish symbol would not be direct ground for anti-semitic attacks. I would therefore not mind it as much as a cartoon showing the prime minister which for all the world represents Jews as a child eater. How many Jews do you think suffered directly from anti-semitic attacks after such a cartoon was featured so prominently?

I brought to you what hurt me and you're telling me that it's not good enough?

And still - I think such cases should be dealt with according to the laws of the land. Not by whining about racism, but by actually doing something about it.

A recent case in Belgium: the holy virigin was shown with a naked breast. A great furor by Christian groups ensued. I did not really follow the case, but I have yet to see the UN investigating this human rights violation. Nor did anybody turn to the Belgian gov't and expect them to deal with it. If you're interested in this case, I'll try to find more information.

Specifically for your comments:
You say:
I think you’re a hypocrite because you say you stand for equality and peace yet you talk down about Islam.

and then you say:
If you are desecrating on my religion you are hurting me and I will certainly defend myself.

You don't see any problem with these two statements? Peace and defending yourself due to what you see as insults do not go together. And again, as a Muslim, can you explain what insulted you about these cartoons? I might be clueless, but I just don't understand it.

You ask why I'm writing about Islam? Because, being Jewish, I am intensly interested in how Muslim immigrants fit into European society. Both from the historic perspective, since Jews had had to go through this for the past 2 millenia, and from the perspective of the future. If Muslims cause hatred against strangers, Jews are going to suffer. I'm also interested in how Europeans deal with the strange and different. How they deal with valid demands of a person to practice his religion and how they deal with invalid demands and terrrorism. All these processes interest me.

Most of what I bring is simply news. If you think that shows Islam in a bad light, then maybe you should start wondering why it is so easy for me to find such news.

As for me: When a year ago an Israeli living in the Netherlands killed his girlfriend's kids, I was ashamed. I did not try to find any excuse, because there really isn't none, except that the man was nuts. But his nutiness made me feel bad. I do not want other people to get such an impression of Jews or Israel. It made the news in Israel and people in comments reacted the same. They do not want such an example for their nation. I expect Muslims to act the same way. So far, I don't see that. When Muslims do start feeling ashamed when people do bad things in the name of their religion, which is supposed to be the true faith of love and peace, instead of striking out at anybody who points out such issues, then I will be the first one to put it on my blog.

Esther said...

Hey nolabels,

I'm actually trying to have a discussion. I appreciate all the links, but I really do study Islam. I have read much about Islam, including some rather serious books. Books which discuss Islamic philoshopy and thought. Of course I'm no expert. That's why I constantly read more. All these books have not explained to me why a picture of Mohammed in the desert is so insulting.

Laws of the land - if I'm not mistaken, you come from Canada? One of the world's liberal democracies with freedom guaranteed for all? Of course there are times when desperate measures need to be taken. But these times are not when a CARTOON is published in a newspaper. If you already want to start a revolution for human rights, how about you start with Iran and Saudia? North Vietnam maybe? The last place I would shout about human rights abuses are the liberal democracies of Canada, the US and Europe.

Now, I don't mind having a serious discussion with you. If you want to just shout at me everytime that I hate Islam and that I'm hypocritcal without referring back to what I'm actually saying, then you're welcome too, of course - but don't expect that to prove your point for anybody who reads it.

Today Muslims are responsible for almost all terror attacks around the world. This includes many terror attacks against Muslims themselves. By saying "all humans should be ashamed" you're actually following in the footsteps the British Muslim council. You're saying - I disown all responsibility for my own crimes, since "everybody" should feel responsible for them. It doesn't go that way. When one religion and one religion alone is the focal point of so much terror and bloodshed, maybe, just maybe, somebody should stop and ask themselves why?

Just saying "we're a religion of peace" does not make you one. If you want to have a serious discussion, please try to prove your point. (and getting all violent is not really helpful in doing so)

You say that all news showing Muslims in a bad light are just written by Muslim haters.
I am not perfect. I will be the first one to admit it. Please note one of the my posts Fact and Fiction. So you can shout at me that I'm just copying drivel about Muslims that didn't happen, but as much as I can, I do verify my facts. I will never write up something I know not to be true, and if I have any doubts, I will spend time to verify it. How much trouble do you go to before you write up a comment?

"I could easily find news on Jewish people as well and cartoons"

Yes - you'll find many anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli cartoons. You can start off right here. But if you want the real definition of hypocrisy, it's comparing a cartoon of Mohammed walking in the desert (drawn since people feared for their lives to illustrate a book about Mohammed) to a picture of Jews as rats and snakes. I hope you see the difference. Should the cartoons in question have been a picture of Muslims as rats intending to take over the world, do you really think Danish authorities wouldn't have opened up an investigation against the newspaper for going against the Danish anti-racism laws?

You expect me to rant and rave about pictures desecrating Judaism? I'm sure you could find some, but I don't understand your point. The point is not that there are Jew haters around the world, or Muslim haters, or black haters or other kinds of racists and bigots. The point is that when a cartoon is drawn putting down Muslims, instead of suing the newspaper, the Muslim organizations of that country bring it up to the level of death threats and a UN Human Rights investigation. So, please do find me a similar story about Jews. I'd be curious to see it.

Esther said...

Thank you for giving me a lesson in the true meaning of love and peace.

Let's see:
- you do not bother answering my questions. I am not asking out of malice, but out of true curiosity. I want to learn. Instead of answering, you insult me (I did not learn enough), you give me a very general link to an Islamic site and tell me I haven't studied enough. If all you can do is tell me to find answers elsewhere, don't be surprised when I actualy do. For the next person you try to convince about Islam, I suggest you make just a little bit of an effort in actually showing them that you're nice and not just condenscending and insulting.

- you did not give backing to anything you claim. I asked you several times for such, but all you can tell me if that I'm a Muslim hater and don't deserve any consideration. That might be good enough for bigots, but not for people who actually think.

- you are so full of hate - against Jews, against the very society which enables you to have such discussions (in Saudi Arabia internet is censored), against anybody and everybody. If this is the example of truly enlightened Islam, then I'm only left to wonder why this is supposed to make me think Islam is as good as you claim.

I tried finding a good count of all terror attacks in 2005. Sadly, I only found a list of those committed by Muslims (only those where people were killed). Notice that many of these attacks were in Muslim countries.

If you want to prove that Muslims aren't responsible for most terror attacks in the world, how about you do it, instead of expecting all those bigoted Muslim haters to do it for you?

Esther said...

Hi nolables,

Kind of a funny name for somebody who labels and insults others.

Do you really think I'll give you my private email?

I think you're really a coward . If you would be really tough like you're showing yourself to be you would go to REAL Muslim hating sites and start saying something there. With your email in full view, you won't last a minute in such a verbal fight. Instead, you go to somebody who's actually trying to be objective.

Like I said, thanks for the lesson!

Anonymous said...


Re: Mohammed cartoons reach Normay.

Esther said...

Thanks for the compliments, Judah :-)

I am also interested and will post anything once I find it. Maybe I should start learning Danish ;-)

Anonymous said...

Posting pictures of beheading Christians is "OK' but, posting cartoons of a terrorist is somehow problematic, I do not think so. It's about time thst those that preach Islamic ideology, taste that which us Christians have had to choke-down, for some years. Take care.

Anonymous said...

Check out this link.

My friend Posting pictures of beheading Christians is not "OK' actually its sickinning and stupid but,in a similar way posting cartoons of a terrorist is not right either. how can it be. Moses, jesus and Mohammad should all be respected because they are one body. If moses the mind is hurt whole body hurt, If jesus the liver is hurt, the whole body is hurt and if mohammad the heart is hurt, the whole body is hurt. There is no difference so plz dont go there. If anything, It's about time that those who enjoy the good word of unity and justice come out and say a good word. For fighting in the name of justice demands endurance. if you jst going to cry like a baby and 'ifs and 'buts and its 'about time' than i suggest that you my firend should read the Injil,Torah,Gospel and Quran...for they are all came with a message from from the same one (YHVH)... what you know as God and what the muslims know as Allah.