Denmark: Internal justice in Muslim communities

A parallel society where imams or other powerful people sentence delinquent Muslims and where the Danish state of law stands aside.  That is a reality in many places in the country, say several sources to Berlingske Tidende.

Police in the Vollsmose neighborhood of Odense revealed in Information magazine Saturday that about 90% of all complaints to the police are dropped.  Instead the conflicts are solved without the police and the courts.


The Information article is based on eyewitness reports, interviews with sources close to the pedophilia suspect and the imams in Vollsmose, community police and criminologists.  The attack occurred last fall, but the matter has been smouldering ever since.  [ed: the story is somewhat summarized].

Among Vollsemose's gray concrete buildings, a middle aged man and his three year old son get out of a car.  Hand in hand they go over to a little shopping center.  The man looks down as several of his acquaintances sit down in front of a halal-butcher.

Only when he's called, he forces his eyes up, and he sees a guy holding a silver-grey cellphone in his hand.

"Is this your voice on the recording?" calls the guy in Arabic.  He points the cellphone at the man.  "Is this your voice?"  The man looks surprised but finds the words.  "Yes, but it was just for fun, so won't you be sweet and delete it from your phone?"  Smiling the man reaches for the phone.

The smile disappears when he sees the man staring at him.   The man's arm tightens and he raises his voice , grabbing the other man's shirt.  From the greengrocer's a man comes out, grabs the little son's arm and brings him back to the car he's just come out of.  While the boy is flung inside, he father hits the asphalt, while he's kicked and beaten.

The curtains are pulled aside in the windows of the surrounding buildings.  More men come out.  The neighborhood boys receive SMSs that there are riots.  they come out fast and from all directions.  An audience which doesn't interfere in the drama.

After several minutes the beating stops.  The man lies still on the ground, but the cries continue around him.  He finally gets up and drags himself back to his car, turns the keys and backs out of the parking lot with his crying son in the backseat.

A recorded phone call has for some time gone around among residents of the Odense ghetto of Vollsmose.  The recording is of a conversation between a 10-year old boy and an adult man, both of Palestinian origin living in the neighborhood, where the man talks about the boys private parts, asks him when he will go out with him on a drive and ends by telling the boy not to speak about it.

But the name and sexual undertones were recorded on the boy's phone.  Like high-technology dominoes, the recording tumbled through bluetooth onto the closed, local network which exists among the residents of Vollsmose.  Suspicion of pedophilia spreads.

Many in Vollsmose are believing Muslims and according to the Koran and Arab tradition pedophilia is punished harshly.  Several times in the following weeks the residents take the law into their own hands and beat the man.  The police in the neighborhood isn't surprised since it's not the first time such things happen.

Torben Aagaard, a police agent in the local police station, says that many of the residents are used to having imams and older men take care of disagreements and therefore they don't turn to the police but find instead an alternative solution.

The case continues and the rumors buzz around.  The man will be hanged, according to some rumors.  He will have his nose cut off with shears, according to others.  He therefore flees to Germany on advice of both the police and close friends who seriously fear for his life.

The recording doesn't only bring up anger, but also memories.  Several witnesses tell the police how they can remember being abused by the man when they were children and he was their football coach.

The police start working on the case and begin to prepare a long report which they expect will be used to convict the suspect.

Several days later, about 40 Palestinian men meet in one of the houses in Vollsemose.  Three of Vollsmose's Arab imams are there: Abu Hassan, Abu Bashar and Abu Lahmin and they all start to debate the pedophilia suspect.

There are many opinions: that he was a pedophile for many years, that it can't be, that he should be kicked out of Vollsmose, that he should stay so that he doesn't attack children elsewhere, that he did it, that he's a good man, that he's sick.

After an hour's time, an older, highly-respected gentleman comes up with a suggestion, which is accepted by all.  Imam Abu Hassan, with his power as a religious authority, rewords the decision, adding citations from the Koran and speaks so long that nobody asks questions anymore.

The men agree that the suspect had never committed any other crime, and that some in the ghetto have certainly done it, which is worse.  People shouldn't throw stones if they live in an apartment with glass windows, stresses one of the participants.

The suspect can therefore stay in Vollsmose, when he comes home from Germany.  But he will know that what he's done is wrong.  Some think the man is sick and that the whole family needs support.  One of the imams will teach the family about Islam.

In the end the meeting decides that the case will be closed.  When people don't know the truth, they should let Allah find it.  Even the prophet didn't talk about things he didn't know the truth of, points out one of the imams.

The rumors, gossip and accusations will stop.  Already the same evening everybody will tell their family and friends that they should not talk more about the man and the suspicions.  The women will understand that they should not talk about it on the street corners and children shouldn't talk about it in the schoolyard.  The message of silence will also be spread at Friday prayers in the mosques of Vollsmose.

An hour and a half of heated sentencing.  the discussion is over.  The men leave the house in agreement and each go back to his own residence.

Among the concrete walls, men seldom turn with conflicts to the police.  The Danish punishment system is bureaucratic and slow compared with the powerful, local network.  When the police cases are finally closed there will always be a winner and a loser, a basis for new conflicts.

The imams in Vollsmose solve conflicts in a completely different way.  By reaching an agreement, the parties in the disagreement can shake hands and go their separate ways without being bitter.  the imams are called in day and night, and so conflicts are solved before they reach the police.

After the meeting the police had to give up the pedophilia case.  Several witnesses changed their statements.  They remembered wrong, they said about the humiliating experiences that they trust the police with a few days earlier.  The criminal police tells the local police that there is concrete evidence, but without evidence the accusation is insubstantial.

In Vollsmose the practice is so widespread that the police station today has implemented a new procedure for complaints.  In order to prevent work going to waste, they listen to what people have to say but ask them to come again the next day if they want to continue with lodging the complaint.  Most don't come again.

It's well known that people among some ethnic minorities of Arabic culture cultivate this type of local jurisprudence.

Anette Storgaard, a criminologist from Aarhus University, says that there's no research that shows that why it's linked.  But it's clear that religion can be an alternative source of law which determines what is a crime and what punishment should be given.  The dilemma starts when minorities choose their own interpretation of Islam instead of Danish law.

In Vollsmose the imams rules with their own interpretation of Islam and cultural traditions, the police therefore use many resources to remain a recognized authority in the community.  They dress in civil cloths and play pool in the youth club to convince the youth that they can trust the police.
Torben Aagaard says that in the past they had a reasonable view of what happened in the area, but after the police reform there aren't enough resources to keep tabs on what's happening.

Thirteen blocks away from the little local police station, a man comes out of a building and sees a "you will move out of here" spray-painted across from his house.  He quickly contacts a close friend and neighbor.  The friend says it's boy's tricks and they quickly make sure to remove the graffiti.  Nobody contacts the police.  Several in the area accepted the situation around the pedophilia suspect, but others still call him names or avoid talking to him.


Torben Aagard, a police agent working in the Odense neighborhood, says that there are criminals who are never punished by Danish law.  He says that there's a legal parallel society which makes it very hard for the police to do their job.  Naturally there are many who live by Danish law but as long as they don't dare file complaints against others, it's very hard to do anything.  He thinks money, honor, threats and sometimes also violence are used to try to solve conflicts internally within the Muslim communities.

Resident's chairman Mohammed Aslam from Mjølnerparken in Copenhagen confirms to Berlingske Tidende that the phenomenon of a law system without the police is extensive.  In Mjølnerparken people use a method where children and youth who have committed vandalism pay the aggrieved a settlement.

Mohammed Aslam says that it's meant to give the youth a chance, so they don't get into jail and become more criminal.   He stresses that he doesn't know that the phenomenon is organized and that he himself wouldn't get involved in serious cases such as the pedophilia case in Vollsmose.

Integration consultant Manu Sareen is appalled and says such things don't belong in a constitutional state, having several amateur judges in a basement.  Naturally it's ok for people to solve small disagreements on their own, but we're now seeing that people solve domestic violence, rapes etc.  It's not proper and is a very unfortunate development.  Manu Sareen thinks that imams send a bad message in particular to young immigrants not to rely on the police, the Danes and on the constitutional state in general.
He says that instead there's a need to show that Denmark is their land, and that the problems will be solved in a modern context.  Not through a strange, traditional access to society, he says and calls for more dialog between residents, police and social workers.

Imam Abu Bashar of Odense denies that punishments are given out.  He says it's 100% wrong.  Most of their work is about problems in families or between couples.  the imams get involved only in social problems and criminal problems are left to the police and the courts, he told DR.

According to Abu Bashar imams solve many forms of conflicts: neighborhood spats, problems between couples and other conflicts.  People respect what the imams say, but they don't think so of the police.  He didn't want to comment about violence but said that it's a part of the culture to listen to the imam and therefore imams have a lot of power, more than the police in some contexts.

Sources: Berlingske, Information 1, 2 (Danish)


Anonymous said...

That's horrifying. It's like giustizia all'Itaiana except that it's random strangers who carry it out and not the family members of the victim, and that it's carried out in public amongst frenetic, cultish, rabid people cheering it on. The reason for this is absolutely Islamic. Muslims believe that it's them against the state, and that that which Allah conceals from us/the state should remain concealed from us. It's the same reason why Muslims have a patent inability to admit their own faults, wrongdoings, or ineptitude, and therefore always blame someone else. According to the Reliance of the Traveler, the greatest sin one can commit is admitting to a sin which Allah had concealed, so if you murder 15 Muslim men who could not possibly be accused of doing anything wrong (killing anyone else is always extremely pious in Islam, unless it's innocent Muslimas, whom you can always just accuse of 'lewdness' or adultery) and you confess, the greater sin is the confession. They want this swept under the rug and they don't want the rest of society to know that these things happen. It's like when Ahmedinejad says that there's no homosexuality in Iran, and yet 50-75 people are hanged for it every year.

Many in Vollsmose are believing Muslims and according to the Koran and Arab tradition pedophilia is punished harshly. No, they don't. That is pure taqiyya. There is not one single teaching against pedophilia or pederasty in Islam. Mo condemned homosexuality, but was very clear about excusing pedophilia and pederasty. Raping little girls was glamorized and advocated by Perv Mo, especially the rape of a retarded family memeber. Raping little boys is also perfectly halal, but it must remain concealed from societies who recognize it as sinful or immoral. It's not even considered to be 'homosexual' activity. If it were inappropriate in any way according to their line of thnking, then children would segregated from adults just like men and women are segregated, because the only reason they see as to why men and women should associate is for sex, so it goes for men and little boys, also potential sexual partners. They're not segregated because raping litte boys is A-OK to them. See here and here. A 10 year-old may be too old to be halal-ly raped, though. It has to be a boy with no evidence of puberty. Trifkovic writes about this, and nowhere is raping little boys more accepted that "Palestine" except maybe Afghanistan, since Kandahar has always been pederast-central, and THE place to buy underage male sex slaves. Furthermore, according to a UNESCO link on the website that I read, 48% of all "Palestinian" children are raped in mosques. 96% of them are raped in total, but that statistic was weird because it didn't necessarily mean that 96% of them were molested, since 48% of them were molested in mosques, just shy of 30% of them in schools, a bunch at home, etc., so it could theoretically be more like half of them than all of them. The interesting thing about the 48% statistic is that only 49% of the population is allowed in mosques, so it's entirely possible that every little boy in "Palestine" who doesn't get killed when Hamas fires rockets at Israel with children in the trenches with them, and who don't then get killed by Israel when they defend themselves because Hamas murders its own children in this way nearly every day, gets raped in a mosque. I have no way of knowing this, but I imagine that it's done systematically, since the "Palestinians" are so bound and determined to turn all their children into terrorists, and since childhood sexual abuse is an essential ingredient in the creation of a terrorist. It's the same reason why the Saudis intentionally hire pedophile-Imans (the 'pedophile' part will be redundant in 5 years, mark my words) who systematically rape all the boys in the Saudi-run madrassas.

I would also imagine that the parents of the little boy who got hit on left "Palestine" because they wanted a life free of sexual abuse and homicide bombing for their son, so it's doubly sad that this happened.

So the community response stems from the fact that within cults behavior is controlled, the bad is punished, and in no cult is this more true than Islam, in which fgm, gender apartheid, Dark-Age slave rags, media control, etc., are pervasive. Second, it stems from the attempt to conceal it from the culture at large so people won't know that this happens in Muslim society. In my personal experience with Muslims, they invariably operate on the assumption that everyone is as illiterate and ignorant as your average Muslim, who lacks a legitimate education and is sheltered from legitimate media, so this isn't surprising. The act itself is only shameful so long as people who consider it shameful know about it, which means that on some level they know it's wrong (and so is Islam by proxy), or they would defend it like they do polygamy. Third, they simply believed the guy should have had his ass beaten, a little slap on the wrist, because it's a mere infraction, not a genuine crime to them, and that he therefore shouldn't be sent to prison. He should nurse his wounds for 3 days for the sin of nearly getting their secret out, and that should be the end of it. If they wanted justice they would send him to prison, where he would be raped every day. Fourth, Muslims need incidents like this on some sick level. They thrive on watching corporal punishment, as this is just about the only 'fun' they can enjoy in their bloodlustful cult, particularly within a civilized society. That's why when women who are accused of engaging in romantic relationships independently of incestuous Sharia sex slavery, even in rural Turkey, are stoned (and this does happen in Turkey - read the letters to Ali Sina from apostates), they all gather 'round, cheer it on, and shout 'Allah-hu Akbar!,' like how Karl Jung described the atmosphere in Nazi Germany as 'Islamic.'

wendy mann said...

all communities have internal justice, in the north of ireland sectarianism leads to couples who cross the religious divide being beaten of murdered.

in the uk there are beth din jewish arbitration courts which have been institutionalised for over a 100 years.

we are all aware of the mafia and the italian stereotype of justice if they are dishonoured.

jdamn visit my blog and learn about taqqya which you have incorrectly defined in your first part (you ref reliance of the traveler).

ahmedinejad did not say there was no homosexuality in iran, what he actually stated was that there isnt homosexuality of the kind found in the usa. you need to source the actuality rather than the usual propaganda sites.

please do not make a fool of yourself. islam does not condone paedophilia and no where does it advocate it.

the fact is that in europe there arent muslim gangs seeking children but quite the contrary the greatest number of paedophiles are non muslims.

you should again refer to my blog where you will discover the reasoning for mohammads marriage to aisha.

as for paedophilia european royalty, aristocracy are all known to have had marriages with young persons , in fact henry the 8th uk was having an affair with 9 yo.

mary is assumed to be around 11yo when she was with joseph who is thought to have been in his mid 20's.

what we deem to be paedophilia today was not necessarily the nature of those relationships in the past.

as for rape in mosques, i can surely point to the catholic church and its widespread abuse of boys in europe and the usa to which the pope has recently apologised- some little comfort for those victims.

i think it is quite worrying when you can be so easily misinformed and that you dont recognise the nature of your posts to an objective observer on the outside.

by all means be critical if that is your want and pleasure but please keep a perspective , be intelligent about it.

Anonymous said...

Wendy, every argument you made was tu quoque, equivocal, and logically false. That, plus your comparing my fear of Islamofascism to Nazi Judeophobia, are more than demonstrative of the both a patently Islamic mindset, Islamic 'education' whereby nobody is able to pick out a logical fallacy and therefore lacks the logical and mental faculties of a reasonably intelligent 5-year-old, and of the fact that you have filled your head with propaganda from people who are both evil and idiotic.

For one thing, Perv Mo said "why don't you marry a virgin so you can play with her?" By 'play' he meant 'sexually assault,' and by 'virgin' he meant '6 year-old,' preferably of he brain-damaged family-member sort. Muslims are obsessed with virginity. Why? Because they're pedophiles and that's just normal to them. The same reason why Muslim women have to shave their pubes. This also dispels the myth that polygamy is some altruistic construct for saving war widows. Women, girls, and little boys are sex objects, possessions in Islam. That's why they're sex slaves for all intents and purposes. As for raping little boys, actually check out the Father Zakari a link I provided. Perv Mo said that if you can't get it up with women then being a pederast is perfectly halal. He also provided his dead warriors with 28 little boys, Shi'ites imams without exception have harems of little boys, and in Kandahar they have the oldest, and probably the only remaining sex-slave market containiing nothing but little 'dancing' boys for sale. Furthermore, raping little boys is explicitly permitted by Sharia.

As for your tu quoque logical fallacies, there is zero documentation or reason to believe that Mary was a child when she married other than Islamic sources who confound her with Miriam and have her living up the street from Moses, and who claim that the Bible is corrupted, so it is you who need to "you need to source the actuality rather than the usual propaganda sites." And as for European royalty marrying young, what people did 1000 years ago and what people do today under religious sanction are completley different things. How that has anything to do with anything makes zero sense. Christian royalty were not living under Sharia law and have no divine sanction to rape children. And as for the Catholic church thing, yes, dozens of boys were molested and that is horrible. That's also where IRA terrorists come from. But the Catholic Church admitted to it, paid huge settlements, and apologized, and more Pakistani boys were raped by an imam in a sigle Saudi-run madrassa just today than have ever been sexually abused by priests in the history of time. Had those Catholic priests been Muslim imams, in the face of proof, they would have defended their right to rape little boys. Moral equivalence proves nothing, and the sort you employed can only be described as 'reaching with Inspector Gadget's arms.'

I never said that there were "muslim gangs seeking children." Where you got that, I can't imagine. Like I said,in the free world, Muslims do their best to hide their homosexual pedophilia because it is actually considered homosexual to rape a boy. Check out my Trifkovic link. The only thing that's considered 'homosexual' in Muslim culture is being a proud, out-of-the-closet gay, and barring that, gay sex is never considered homosexual; rather, it is belived to confer a degree of hyper-masculinity. More Muslim 'logic' of the sort of which you're so fond. Furthermore, read 'The Origins of Terrorism' and especially 'Ghosts From the Cradle' by Lloyd Demause. Being molested as a child is an absolutely essential ingredient in the creation of a terrorist. EVen schizophrenics won't go down the path of murdering random strangers unless they are victims of childhood sexual abuse. And as far as raping little girls, the last Muslim nation to have had an age of consent over 10 was Egypt and they repealed it back to 9 last May at the same time they relegalized female genital mutilation. No, they don't rape little girls in roving street gangs. Little girls get raped at home by their fathers and brothers who do so with 'religious' sanction from 2.223: rape your daughters, your sisters, your bought sex slaves ('wives'), and your abducted sex slaves, and do it whenever or however you want. Then they marry 5-year-olds.

And yes, every society has internal justice, but it usually consists of running someone out of town or treating hem more harshly than the law would. In tis case it was for the express intention of amusing spectators, keeping it hidden from society at large, and giving a child molester a slap on the wrist. It wasn't about personal revenge or keeping a mafia secret.

How nice it must be to live in some sicko-pervert parallel universe like you do where up is down, left is right, there is no difference between right and wrong, nothing is evil, there are no existential threats, the Jews are Nazis, and something called 'Islamozionism' exists. But I will grant you that you do obviously know thing or two about taqiyaa. Not let's try to bring it up to a level acceptable for 6 year-olds, shall we?

Anonymous said...

I meant "read 'The History of Childhood' by Lloyd DeMause." 'Ghosts from the Nursery' is not written by DeMause and is only semi-relevant here. 'The History of Childhood' discusses how sexual abuse is essential in the creating of a terrorist, and it's amazing how 'Palestine' has little armies of terrorists comprised of every little boy ten and up. But no homosexual child rape there, according to Wendy. Ok.