Hirsi Ali on European Muslims

Hirsi Ali was interviewed on CNN by Fareed Zakaria a couple of days ago. The first part focused on women in Islam, the second, below, was about European Muslims.


KGS said...

Unfortunately, Hirsi Ali missteps in her observations of Muslims in the US. Far from being unlike their co-religionists in Europe, US MUslims have been caught red-handed in waging jihad in the states.

The examples are legion, and Pamela Geller at Atlas Shrugs and Debbie Schlussel at debbieschlussel.com have well documented the evidence.

as much as I respect her, Hirsi Ali once again shows her naivity.

Mark Tapson said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Mark Tapson said...

KGS, I suspect Hirsi Ali knows full well about jihadists in the U.S., but I think she's merely generalizing that American Muslims are more assimilated than in Europe. I think that's undeniable, even though here in the States we're seeing increasing evidence of creeping sharia, and cultural or "soft" jihad (as well as the violent type I think you were referring to).

nunya said...

Thanks for posting that.

Anonymous said...

Big shaker, I agree with you. And I do think that Muslims are better-assimilated in the US and I think that that's because they have to be. We don't have the socialist-appeaser welfare state, and I really believe that that's good for the Muslim community. And we would never recognize polygamy, although I just found out that cousin marriage is not just recognized but perfectly legal in my own state of Indiana! Wow. But anyway, the fact that Muslims can't really just come here and live off the dole means that they have to work, which doesn't really allow them to build these parallel societies like in Europe and Canada. They have to assimilate and integrate. This is great for them because it gives them pride in work, which, sadly, is a non-existent concept in the Muslim world but a basic free-world value which one can really only appreciate by living it and which is incredibly liberating, really. They can also experience legitimate upward mobility too, which was not likely to have been an opportunity afforded them in their homeland, especially for women. In this way they can feel like productive members of society and earn respect from the rest of us like other immigrants, while they also have to learn about us and deal with us and not subscribe to the separatist, "I will not associate with those infidel najis" kind of thinking that seems to be so prevalent in Europe and Canada.

I just wish their kids would stop dragging down our already messed-up, slow, and violent schools by attacking girls and Jewish kids and blaming the school system when they fail. Kids are so cliquish anyway and I see no good way to overcome that in schools like in the rest of society. I certainly see Muslims try to isolate themselves from the rest of us in grad school to the maximum extent that they can, which is pretty much everywhere but in the classroom, but thankfully that doesn't work when you have to earn a living, except in Dearborn, Michigan. I just hope we don't introduce Sharia banking, which is the first step to allowing these parallel societies to pop up.

But we also have to take pains to monitor the Muslim population more closely because we can't outlaw many terrorist information channels like they do in Europe. I'm okay with people possessing terrorist literature. I went through a phase in which I was fascinated by Italian terrorism in the 1960s-70s mostly because I was interested in the extreme politics of the era and the historical background. I'm glad I could read about it, and I'm glad that I can own an Al Qaeda manual. But I'm glad that we monitor our mosques under the 2006 amendments to the Patriot Act too.

Hirsi Ali is so gorgeous and has such a pleasant voice and accent. 'The Caged Virgin' is the next book I plan to read. I waited for two months for an affordable used copy on Amazon. And kgs, I really don't think she's naive at all. She's been horribly victimized by Islam in multiple ways and lives her life with a fatwa on her head and under constant security because her buddy Theo Van Gogh got stabbed to death in the street. I think she has a unique perspective on the situation, really, having experienced it in Africa (although rural Somalian Islam is very mild and heavily animist-influenced), to radical Wahhabis in the Middle East, to Europe, to the United States. Few people can claim that, and when you read her writing her insight really does shine through. She doesn't need to convince Fareed Zakaria of the threat of radical Islam. He's also got a unique perspective on it, being a Pakistani apostate who obviously fears for America's future. It did seem as though that conversation was based on some mutual understanding of that perspective rather than being geared toward the viewer.

Esther said...

Hi jdamn13,

And we would never recognize polygamy, although I just found out that cousin marriage is not just recognized but perfectly legal in my own state of Indiana! Wow.

You're talking about the same country where radical Mormons live in their own towns practicing polygamous and child marriages? The law in Arizona and Utah does not allow authorities to do what they did in Texas.

Esther said...

Hi jdamn13,

And I forgot to mention.. I once ran across a site of this guy in Idaho who married at 13.

You might want to take a look at the permissible marriage age in various states across the USA.

The states vary in determining the minimum age at which a couple can marry with parental consent. However, for the majority of states, this age is sixteen though in a very few states, this age is as low as fourteen.


The laws of each state strictly regulate the marriage between relatives (also known as consanguinity). According to the "rules of consanguinity," no state allows marriage to a child, grandchild, parent, grandparent, uncle, aunt, niece, or nephew. However, for all other familial relationships, the states vary widely and the particular laws of the state of marriage must be consulted.

Anonymous said...

Those FLDS members had formed a parallel society. The scary part about that was that they had elected a mayor and had law enforcement entirely from amongst the cult. And polygamy is NOT legal or recognized here. None of those polygamous marriages were valid, and those folks are now waiting to stand trial. The sticking point was whether or not to take the kids away, which is inconceivable to me that any social service could leave them with those monsters. The Mormons (and this was a radical sect) are America's own separatist, supremacist cult with wackjob scripture, who idealize cousin incest, inbreeding (80% of them are descended from 2 guys), polygamy, child marriage, arranged marriage, and they ban harmless stuff like dancing and caffeine. Oprah did a show on those wackos. OMG. It reminded me of Iran. All the windows were mirrors so nobody could see in or out, there was no TV, and all the women dressed like it was 1850. And I got the sense that it was more than polygamy, but even polyamory that was going on, because they all lived in these huge commune houses. So creepy.

My aunt Penny got maried at 14 in Kentucky in the 1950s (she was crazy). I think 16 is the legal age of marriage there now. It's 18 in most states. Nobody gets married young here, though, so it will be interesting to see if those laws don't change in light of the Muslim influx, because few if any Americans regard teen marriage as acceptable. Polygamy lawa are enforced, though. There was a big to-do about Utah legalizing it some years back, then there was a big deal about them actually enforcing the law retroactively so as to punish offenders, since it violates a federal law, and the fed said they would cut highway funds if they didn't. Mormons, like all cults by definition, always try to carve out a parallel society, and they have the numbers and the industriousness to do it, plus they're all concentrated geographically. Utah is like Mormo-land. You can't spend a dollar in Utah without giving it, ultimately, to Mormonism in one way or another. And the thing about having young legal ages for marriages is that it lets kids elope. Those kids are never in arranged/forced marriages. I think everyone regards teens marrying as child marriage these days, but I can't speak for Lousiana, Mississippi, and backwoods states like them.

See why I'm in favor of giving Utah to the Israeli Jews and shipping the Mormons off to the Middle East?

Esther said...


I didn't say polygamy was recognized or legal in the US. I said that there are those who do it. I haven't followed up on this story in Texas, but I understood at the time that removing the kids from their homes was not trivial, and that in neighboring states the law does not allow authorities to do so.

Looking it up in Google News, I see there was a court decision just this past week: Ariz. court upholds polygamist's conviction

According to the article polygamy was outlawed by the supreme court, not by law (?). Anyway.. here's another article on the subject:

Fundamental Mormons seek recognition for polygamy

Anonymous said...

They're always trying to get polygamy recognized but it will never happen. And it's not that they care about whether or not the marriages are valid. They just don't want to go to prison for it, but we punish polygamy here. They also want tax breaks and medical insurance for their extra families. The gay marriage debate, if anything, has caused us to reconsider our views on marriage generally, and in light of that, polygamy has even more of an uphill battle now than before.